Question & Complaint

[Viper]

I acknowledge I had my jet stunt video recently posted on the front page (thank you very much, JL ). But, I feel disconcerted. I have never seen another plane stunt video on the front page of this website. GTAStunting will post a budding motorbike crew on the front page if they have a decent video, but plane stunts are completely neglected. DuKtape's video could have been on the front page back in 2007, but I can't recall (it's amazing how much attention that video received).

Admittedly, most plane stunt videos are tedious and don't showcase real skill. Anyone can fly a plane through a tight space if they try enough times. Likewise; anyone can bump a motorbike with enough attempts, right? There are good and bad stunt videos. But when someone does a proper plane stunt video (not necessarily the greatest, but still good), I suspect it's to be neglected by this website unless the stunter contacts an administrator.

I think that's a problem! GTAStunting is the only forum Google will show you when you search anything close to "GTA stunts". Everybody who's genuinely interested in stunting will find this forum. Rockstar looks at it; hell, there's nowhere else to look. When people look through this website, however, they see a clear bias towards motorbike stunts. I think that's toxic! Why does GTAStunting (the biggest forum on the topic), in 2014, primarily represent motorbike stunts despite countless innovations since its inception?

I believe the current presentation of GTAStunting pressures people away from alternative stunting (which is equally relevant). If stunters are looking for critical acclaim from the GTAStunting community (which is damn relevant; everyone will tell you this community's opinion matters most), they certainly cannot achieve it without a crotch rocket (or sadly, an administrator). Most of us here work hard on our stunt videos. As a stunting community, everyone deserves a fair chance of getting recognized for their unique work!

If every administrator is all about motorbikes, however, this ideology is an impossibility. Motorbike stunts are undoubtedly the most popular variety, and their attention is well-deserved. I have personally worked just as hard as every veteran motorbike stunter here, however, for 8 years, and I need to present my video to an administrator to get a little post on the front page? What the fuck is going on here?

I am making this poll because I'm curious to see how many people actually like plane stunts. Please be sincere. If they bore you, I want to know about it! I understand most people do a bad job of stunting planes and it bores the hell out of me, too. But when someone does a damn good job, I believe it deserves praise from the best community out there; regardless of the medium. I realize there probably aren't many plane stunters on this website and, ironically, that further supports my issue with this website.

GTAStunting needs to look like the home of all GTA stunting varieties. Motorbike stunting does not define good stunting in GTA, yet the administrators seem to disagree. This website is extremely influential and based on the general content in the spotlight, I believe the administrators aren't fully aware of this. You need to attract more stunters by embracing all forms of stunting on your front page. I sincerely hope more alternative stunters will get the chance to be on your front page. It means something.

[Reynard The Fox]

I believe there was not even a frontpage in 2007 so it quite possible you haven't seen DuKtapes video on the frontpage. Also I believe your video Moonlight got around 8 pages of comments when it was released full of praise, including a comment of mine.

Personally I think plane stunts and bike/car stunting are as much the same Olympic lifting and Bodybuilding are (no I don't think it is a perfect  but it illustrates the difference of two things that might seem similar).

You can even compare plane stunting to GTA3 stunt videos. Its a very niche kind of aspect of stunting if you will and simply does not have that much fans as regular VC, SA or V stunting. Heck why don't we promote IV stunting? Why aren't there IV videos on the frontpage? Some of the IV videos are great, but there is a clear lack of videos ever since those videos were released. What happened did we just neglect IV because the admins did not post enough videos on the frontpage? Of course not, IV stunting just sucks ass and just does not compare to VC, SA or V.

I do however agree with you about the videos posted on the frontpage. Thanks JL for posting, but your leftover/grab video does not really qualify as frontpage material. This I think is the source of your frustration; "Why did his video get on the frontpage and my 10 minute long plane video didn't?"  Well because JL has the power to post in on there.

So, more quality videos on the frontpage! And maybe if you make another Hydra video it might shape up to be on the frontpage.

[Viper]

I believe there was not even a frontpage in 2007 so it quite possible you haven't seen DuKtapes video on the frontpage. Also I believe your video Moonlight got around 8 pages of comments when it was released full of praise, including a comment of mine.

Personally I think plane stunts and bike/car stunting are as much the same Olympic lifting and Bodybuilding are (no I don't think it is a perfect  but it illustrates the difference of two things that might seem similar).

You can even compare plane stunting to GTA3 stunt videos. Its a very niche kind of aspect of stunting if you will and simply does not have that much fans as regular VC, SA or V stunting. Heck why don't we promote IV stunting? Why aren't there IV videos on the frontpage? Some of the IV videos are great, but there is a clear lack of videos ever since those videos were released. What happened did we just neglect IV because the admins did not post enough videos on the frontpage? Of course not, IV stunting just sucks ass and just does not compare to VC, SA or V.

I do however agree with you about the videos posted on the frontpage. Thanks JL for posting, but your leftover/grab video does not really qualify as frontpage material. This I think is the source of your frustration; "Why did his video get on the frontpage and my 10 minute long plane video didn't?"  Well because JL has the power to post in on there.

So, more quality videos on the frontpage! And maybe if you make another Hydra video it might shape up to be on the frontpage.

My video got 5 pages of comments (one link posted on page six...not a comment): ' http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=40044.0 ' So it did very well. It could have been on the front page but I don't recall. About 3,000 people viewed the thread. DuKtape's video did a little better than mine on this forum: ' http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=25053.90 ' On YouTube, he has an astronomical amount of views. How could you call jet stunting "niche" with the amount of success DuKtape and myself had? Do you not realize how popular GTA:SA jet stunting has become partially due to our work? It's been going strong for seven years.

I understand motorbike stunting is more popular because it has been around longer. You could argue that's the only reason it's more popular, since both forms of stunting require skill. Both forms can have an edited video with flashy effects and pretty camera angles, too. About IV: as long as good videos get recognition then there's no harm done. If people aren't producing quality work, then too bad. When someone does release a quality video, though, it should damn well be praised.

Your concluding sentence just bashed my video, dude. You don't think it deserves to be on the front page? Nobody has made a video like it. I feel frustrated because it doesn't matter if you produce gold; if it doesn't involve a crotch rocket, it's irrelevant to the admins here. Jet stunting is as equally relevant as motorbike stunting, and you guys need to realize this. Niche? Really?

[RedX]

Personally there are loads of plane stunts I've seen that I'd say were 10/10 stunts in every aspect, the challenge with all plane videos is to make it interesting to watch (seeing a plane fly upside down through a tunnel for 30 seconds is impressive, but not necessarily interesting). Another thing is that especially with the graphics of GTA V on the new consoles and on PC now, plane stunts will look amazing and are great for making cool edits. I'll bet we'll see loads of awesome plane stunting in the years to come!

Silly complaint imo. People like what they like and there's no point analyzing or talking about what should get attention or recognition etc. If you can spark greater interest in plane stunts I think that's great! I'd love to see more plane vids and more collaboration stunts like in the new NU video (rainbow and SS I think it was).

I think a plane vid can be just as good and enjoyable as a normal stunting video, and if it is truly great, I think it will get recognition and be put on the front page just like any other great vid

Edit: Vids like this one are definitely front page material, and I don't think many would disagree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XGn-fBOjw#

[Viper]

Personally there are loads of plane stunts I've seen that I'd say were 10/10 stunts in every aspect, the challenge with all plane videos is to make it interesting to watch (seeing a plane fly upside down through a tunnel for 30 seconds is impressive, but not necessarily interesting). Another thing is that especially with the graphics of GTA V on the new consoles and on PC now, plane stunts will look amazing and are great for making cool edits. I'll bet we'll see loads of awesome plane stunting in the years to come!

Silly complaint imo. People like what they like and there's no point analyzing or talking about what should get attention or recognition etc. If you can spark greater interest in plane stunts I think that's great! I'd love to see more plane vids and more collaboration stunts like in the new NU video (rainbow and SS I think it was).

I think a plane vid can be just as good and enjoyable as a normal stunting video, and if it is truly great, I think it will get recognition and be put on the front page just like any other great vid

Edit: Vids like this one are definitely front page material, and I don't think many would disagree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XGn-fBOjw#

I think there is a point in analyzing bias on GTAStunting. If nobody cares to post alternative forms of stunting on the front page, it isolates the stunters in this community who don't indulge in motorbike stunts. I believe this website is too influential to be doing that. GTAStunting could be preventing certain stunters from joining because they might think their variety of stunting is unimportant here.

That video was ok...the stunts were very boring though, hehe

[FIGHTER]

GTAS doesnt post videos at the frontpage because of any "type" of stunts.

Barneys solo didnt even got posted at the frontpage... (?)

[dirtybird78]

Ok first I'd like to say that video by Bearot is a classic. He is not really a stunter, he's an editor. That's what makes that video so great, the stunts were pretty easy, but the way it was edited was genius. He has 2 other videos that are just random clips in SA, not even stunts,yet you can't stop watching.

If a stunt video is awesome it should get front page regardless of what vehicle is being used. Back in the good ol days of SA stunting, hydra stunts were included in with the bike stunts. In my opinion, a good stunt video should have a mixture of vehicles used. bmx,motorbikes,planes etc..

Vipers video is well deserving of the front page and I think everyone would agree. I agree, GTA IV sucks but if someone made a good video worthy of front page, so be it, who cares which GTA game was used if it looks cool.

[FIGHTER]

Ok first I'd like to say that video by Bearot is a classic. He is not really a stunter, he's an editor. That's what makes that video so great, the stunts were pretty easy, but the way it was edited was genius. He has 2 other videos that are just random clips in SA, not even stunts,yet you can't stop watching.

If a stunt video is awesome it should get front page regardless of what vehicle is being used. Back in the good ol days of SA stunting, hydra stunts were included in with the bike stunts. In my opinion, a good stunt video should have a mixture of vehicles used. bmx,motorbikes,planes etc..

Vipers video is well deserving of the front page and I think everyone would agree. I agree, GTA IV sucks but if someone made a good video worthy of front page, so be it, who cares which GTA game was used if it looks cool.

Yeah thats what i meant!

[dirtybird78]

GTAS doesnt post videos at the frontpage because of any "type" of stunts.

Barneys solo didnt even got posted at the frontpage... (?)

And there are those who rock so hard they don't even care about a front page; i.e Barney 

 edit: I'm not sure if " *And maybe if you make another Hydra video it might shape up to be on the frontpage.* " was a stab at the video but without a doubt it is deserving of the front page.

[Simon]

I think plane stunts are shit boring, not gonna lie. But that doesn't stop me from posting it on the front page, however, since I don't take an interest in it, it's hard to know when a video is 'good' enough to be posted there, and it's not like I'm going to study every single stunt vid topic to see if people seem to enjoy it and whether it is front page worthy. Another reason why you might see more bike stunts on the front page is because more people do them. Like 1 jet video comes out every 100th bike/car video. It's kind of like complaining to Rockstar, saying that they are pandering to bike/car stunters because they make jets harder to access than bikes and cars.

Also worth noting, people generally ask to be posted on the front page, it's not exclusive to you.

[Blaze]

You're making it out as if every single video ever posted on the front page is 100% motorbike stunts, and how creative forms of stunting aren't mentioned at all which is blatantly not true. JL currently has an entire grab solo on the first page, before that Sorcery's collab was posted which encompassed a variety of stunts including some new and innovative methods.

At the end of the day Reynolds is right, jet stunting is niche but that does not mean it doesn't deserve to be recognized (hence why there's a post on it right now); it's like if Syperdimon complained that his III/Rumpo videos don't get posted on the front page, or the guys posting drift videos complaining etc. Sure they're nice, fun to watch and enjoyable but at the end of the day different doesn't always mean good.

I also agree with Simon; I think plane stunts are boring; whilst they're hard as fuck to do they get repetitive and boring really quickly, whereas most if not all stunt videos use a variety of vehicles/methods. If your videos are good enough and stand out from the crowd then they will get the recognition they deserve but if you're stunting solely to get recognition, then you're doing it wrong.

[Reynard The Fox]

I believe there was not even a frontpage in 2007 so it quite possible you haven't seen DuKtapes video on the frontpage. Also I believe your video Moonlight got around 8 pages of comments when it was released full of praise, including a comment of mine.

Personally I think plane stunts and bike/car stunting are as much the same Olympic lifting and Bodybuilding are (no I don't think it is a perfect  but it illustrates the difference of two things that might seem similar).

You can even compare plane stunting to GTA3 stunt videos. Its a very niche kind of aspect of stunting if you will and simply does not have that much fans as regular VC, SA or V stunting. Heck why don't we promote IV stunting? Why aren't there IV videos on the frontpage? Some of the IV videos are great, but there is a clear lack of videos ever since those videos were released. What happened did we just neglect IV because the admins did not post enough videos on the frontpage? Of course not, IV stunting just sucks ass and just does not compare to VC, SA or V.

I do however agree with you about the videos posted on the frontpage. Thanks JL for posting, but your leftover/grab video does not really qualify as frontpage material. This I think is the source of your frustration; "Why did his video get on the frontpage and my 10 minute long plane video didn't?"  Well because JL has the power to post in on there.

So, more quality videos on the frontpage! And maybe if you make another Hydra video it might shape up to be on the frontpage.

My video got 5 pages of comments (one link posted on page six...not a comment): ' http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=40044.0 ' So it did very well. It could have been on the front page but I don't recall. About 3,000 people viewed the thread. DuKtape's video did a little better than mine on this forum: ' http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=25053.90 ' On YouTube, he has an astronomical amount of views. How could you call jet stunting "niche" with the amount of success DuKtape and myself had? Do you not realize how popular GTA:SA jet stunting has become partially due to our work? It's been going strong for seven years.

I understand motorbike stunting is more popular because it has been around longer. You could argue that's the only reason it's more popular, since both forms of stunting require skill. Both forms can have an edited video with flashy effects and pretty camera angles, too. About IV: as long as good videos get recognition then there's no harm done. If people aren't producing quality work, then too bad. When someone does release a quality video, though, it should damn well be praised.

Your concluding sentence just bashed my video, dude. You don't think it deserves to be on the front page? Nobody has made a video like it. I feel frustrated because it doesn't matter if you produce gold; if it doesn't involve a crotch rocket, it's irrelevant to the admins here. Jet stunting is as equally relevant as motorbike stunting, and you guys need to realize this. Niche? Really?

Yes, niche, really. I call it that because only a select few people or groups of people still do hydra stunts. It may have been massively popular one time but its popularity died down,certainly for this forum. What this forum likes to see is innovation and new stunts. Jet stunting does not really lend itself for both to be honest, although there are a few exceptions like MMM's Hydra grab. A reason we don't really like hydra videos anymore because it almost always involves the same few hydra spots every time there is a video (Viper tunnel and flying under bridges).

Another reason people do not like jet stunting because they cannot relate to it. This is the same reason IV videos and IV stunting isn't more popular. If everybody stunted in IV everybody would like to see more IV videos. If everyone did jet stunting... well, you know what. The only reason bike stunting is more popular because it is around longer? Thats some grand bullshit right there. I could argue the same about car stunting, people made little jumpyjump videos in GTA:III but car stunting is nowhere near as popular as bike stunting.

The reason bike stunting is more popular than any form of stunting is because the bike is versatile, small, fast, can grind and can land even the tiniest precisions. You can see the bike has a large range of stunting abilities and thats why even today new stunts are found in both SA and VC. This is why "crotchrocket" stunting is a hundred fold more relevant than any form of plane stunting, especially for keeping this place alive. Because innovation boosts stunting motivation. Who here has never thought: "Wow I wished I thought of that" or "wow I should try this out" or even "I wonder if I can apply this technique to this spot I have".

I even remember that one video you or Snadowshiper or some other dude did. But it was this video where they flew through all the tunnels in the game in a row and doing barrel rolls in between. This video was quite popular if I remember correctly. This was not because a sudden re-interest in jet stunting or posting of it on the frontpage but because this video pushed boundaries and innovated. Thats what we like to see!

[Named]

Thanks JL for posting, but your leftover/grab video does not really qualify as frontpage material. This I think is the source of your frustration; "Why did his video get on the frontpage and my 10 minute long plane video didn't?"  Well because JL has the power to post in on there.

[Viper]

"I think plane stunts are shit boring, not gonna lie. But that doesn't stop me from posting it on the front page, however, since I don't take an interest in it, it's hard to know when a video is 'good' enough to be posted there, and it's not like I'm going to study every single stunt vid topic to see if people seem to enjoy it and whether it is front page worthy...Also worth noting, people generally ask to be posted on the front page, it's not exclusive to you."

This is a mistake I made then. I assumed you guys were actively searching the forums for front page material, because your website is the home of stunting in GTA. Why not look for stand-out works and show them to the community? It seems odd to me that you wouldn’t. Also, I know what you mean; I wouldn’t judge a bike stunt video.

"...If your videos are good enough and stand out from the crowd then they will get the recognition they deserve but if you're stunting solely to get recognition, then you're doing it wrong."

Surely people work hard on their stunts with the intention of showing their ideas to the community? I don’t want to be on the front page so I get praise; I want my ideas to get out there. Especially since the general level of skill among plane stunters isn’t on par with bike stunters. There are less plane stunters than bike stunters, and it is partially due to the fact nobody sees good plane stunting. Less people are inspired to partake.

"Yes, niche, really. I call it that because only a select few people or groups of people still do hydra stunts. It may have been massively popular one time but its popularity died down,certainly for this forum. What this forum likes to see is innovation and new stunts. Jet stunting does not really lend itself for both to be honest, although there are a few exceptions like MMM's Hydra grab. A reason we don't really like hydra videos anymore because it almost always involves the same few hydra spots every time there is a video (Viper tunnel and flying under bridges).

Another reason people do not like jet stunting because they cannot relate to it...The reason bike stunting is more popular than any form of stunting is because the bike is versatile, small, fast, can grind and can land even the tiniest precisions. You can see the bike has a large range of stunting abilities and thats why even today new stunts are found in both SA and VC. This is why ‘crotchrocket’ stunting is a hundred fold more relevant than any form of plane stunting, especially for keeping this place alive. Because innovation boosts stunting motivation. Who here has never thought: ‘Wow I wished I thought of that’ or ‘wow I should try this out’ or even ‘I wonder if I can apply this technique to this spot I have’...�

Many people are still doing Hydra stunts. The majority are isolated, though. They don’t go to this website. If you browse YouTube for San Andreas and V plane stunts, however, you’ll find a lot. As for innovation; admittedly it’s harder to innovate in a plane. I know from experience! However, that does not mean innovation never happens, or that it can no longer happen in SA. The issue with innovation merely stems from a general lack of creativity among pilots (yes, that is harsh; but you won’t prove me wrong). This is why I want my video to get out there. I have been trying to innovate since I started playing the game!

Why do you say people can’t “relate� to jet stunting? You can have a ton of fun stunting a jet. You said: “the reason bike stunting is more popular than any form of stunting is because the bike is versatile, small, fast, can grind and can land even the tiniest precisions�. The jet is fast, it can be stunted in reverse, and it can land on and fly through precisions. The jet can also flip like a motorbike. There are many things you can do with it.

Pilots generally don’t seem to indulge enough. I think it’s because very few are inspired to think outside the box. You’re right when you say “innovation boosts stunting motivation�. I was under the impression GTAStunting would jump on the opportunity to post an inspired plane stunt video. Not because I feel I deserve recognition. Plane stunting is important to me and I think it should mean something to the GTAStunting community too. Regardless if it’s less popular, or if someone doesn't have the best stunt video out there.

[Reynard The Fox]

"Yes, niche, really. I call it that because only a select few people or groups of people still do hydra stunts. It may have been massively popular one time but its popularity died down,certainly for this forum. What this forum likes to see is innovation and new stunts. Jet stunting does not really lend itself for both to be honest, although there are a few exceptions like MMM's Hydra grab. A reason we don't really like hydra videos anymore because it almost always involves the same few hydra spots every time there is a video (Viper tunnel and flying under bridges).

Another reason people do not like jet stunting because they cannot relate to it...The reason bike stunting is more popular than any form of stunting is because the bike is versatile, small, fast, can grind and can land even the tiniest precisions. You can see the bike has a large range of stunting abilities and thats why even today new stunts are found in both SA and VC. This is why ‘crotchrocket’ stunting is a hundred fold more relevant than any form of plane stunting, especially for keeping this place alive. Because innovation boosts stunting motivation. Who here has never thought: ‘Wow I wished I thought of that’ or ‘wow I should try this out’ or even ‘I wonder if I can apply this technique to this spot I have’...�

Many people are still doing Hydra stunts. The majority are isolated, though. They don’t go to this website. If you browse YouTube for San Andreas and V plane stunts, however, you’ll find a lot. As for innovation; admittedly it’s harder to innovate in a plane. I know from experience! However, that does not mean innovation never happens, or that it can no longer happen in SA. The issue with innovation merely stems from a general lack of creativity among pilots (yes, that is harsh; but you won’t prove me wrong). This is why I want my video to get out there. I have been trying to innovate since I started playing the game!

Why do you say people can’t “relate� to jet stunting? You can have a ton of fun stunting a jet. You said: “the reason bike stunting is more popular than any form of stunting is because the bike is versatile, small, fast, can grind and can land even the tiniest precisions�. The jet is fast, it can be stunted in reverse, and it can land on and fly through precisions. The jet can also flip like a motorbike. There are many things you can do with it.

Pilots generally don’t seem to indulge enough. I think it’s because very few are inspired to think outside the box. You’re right when you say “innovation boosts stunting motivation�. I was under the impression GTAStunting would jump on the opportunity to post an inspired plane stunt video. Not because I feel I deserve recognition. Plane stunting is important to me and I think it should mean something to the GTAStunting community too. Regardless if it’s less popular, or if someone doesn't have the best stunt video out there.

Stop trying to straw man me, I did not say people can't relate to jet stunting because it is not fun. I give the exact reasons why I think people can't relate to it in the sentences following.

"The jet is fast, it can be stunted in reverse, and it can land on and fly through precisions. The jet can also flip like a motorbike. There are many things you can do with it."  Sure, jet stunting is still massively limited in range if you compare it to the range of the motorbikes.

Here have a case study on The freeway in Vice City compared to the one in San Andreas.
While looking exactly the same there is a massive difference in stunting abilities. The freeway in VC is faster, and can do this front wheel in the ground stoppies you can use to do these spinning stoppies. Undoubtedly there have been more freeway stunts landed in VC than in SA, by far. Now to say "We should do more freeway stunts in SA!" is downright stupid. The SA freeway does not lend itself for impressing stunts and the stunts it can be used for won't seem even remotely as impressive as the ones you could land in VC. Heck people landed stunts with a freeway in SAiVC that hard even to get with an NRG (Alhambra's top side p2b, I should know I landed it in SA).