i7 4770K or 4820K?

[Squeak]

I'm planning to build/buy a new computer and these two caught my eye, overall the 4770K is better, but the 4820K reads 2,5x faster from RAM, and overall newer. Which one worth getting more, if i'm planning to keep it for a while, and probably buld around it in the future?
If you have any other suggestions/experiences or anything, feel free to share with me, I'm kinda noob for all this PC stuff, only trying to get into it lately. 

[RedX]

I'm super happy with my PC (that I built not long ago) and I know jack shit about hardware. My advice is to find somebody who knows their stuff* and consult them before making any decisions.

*Lucky for me I had Greg (Radioaktive) to help me through the process, I had already ordered some parts to upgrade my (then) current computer, and he was like "nopnopnop, that's all really crappy" so I cancelled the order and he helped me pick out new parts and I ended up building a computer from scratch.

[Rusch69]

It always depends on what you're planning to do with your rig. Those CPUs are pretty much the same in almost all aspects.
Here's a decent comparison: [noembed]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATlYxYh4ApY[/noembed]

Without knowing your needs, I assume you'll be gaming mostly and editing a bit (PS, AI, and such). Therefore Socket 2011 is not worth it, so I throw in Socket 1050 combinations only. Prices came up with good Gigabyte motherboards.

Gaming & no overclocking: H87 Board + i5 4670 (~260 €)
Gaming & overclocking: Z87 Board + i5 4670K (~310 €)
Gaming + Computing & no overclocking: H87 Board + e3 1230 v3 (~290 €)
Gaming + Computing & overclocking: Z87 Board + i7 4770K (~400 €)

[Squeak]

At what needs would you say the 2011 worth it?

[MxZz.]

Nope, just because of one thing : Haswell.

Take the 4770k, I think that's the best at this moment. (looking for the price aswell (WHAT A GREAT WORDGAME))

[Rusch69]

At what needs would you say the 2011 worth it?

2011 Socket has quad channel memory and allows hexa/octa core CPUs and triple or quad SLI/CF combinations wouldn't bottleneck. It is more expensive in general and has a higher power consumption. All in all this is not consumer grade and rather workstation stuff. Too expensive if you're after gaming performance mostly and don't have an unlimited budget.

Games will not benefit too much from the mentioned advantages. Most games use up to 4 cores only and don't make use of the entire memory bandwidth at all.
You're good to go for computing (3D rendering and such) as well if you go with a 1150 Socket CPU that uses HyperThreading (e3 1230 v3/i7 4770K e.g.).

[Squeak]

Really appreciate the help guys, you convinced me. Which graphics card/motherboard/power supply should I go with, to keep it around, or if possible even under 1000€. The one that does worth it's price the most, usable for years without getting worried to change it, and would fit my photoshop/gaming needs and all that.

[Rusch69]

2048MB Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 Windforce
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3 4x 3.30GHz So.1150
Gigabyte H87-HD3 Intel H87 So.1150 Dual
530 Watt be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM Modular
8GB Corsair Vengeance LP Black DDR3-1600
120GB Samsung 840 Evo Series 2.5" (6.4cm)
Fractal Define R4 gedämmt Midi Tower
Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev.A (BW) Tower
2000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001

~ 980 € at the shop I where I order my stuff.

No CD/DVD device, shit is useless pretty much these days. You could spare cash if you still got a HDD or don't want a SSD (or a bigger one). Another case could spare cash too, but this one leaves no complains. RAM is currently extremely expensive, therefore it's "just" 8 GB currently. Still 2 free slots on the motherboard, so could be upgraded at any time, but 8 GB should be all fine since it'll be dual channel at least anyway. The CPU is also not easily overclockable via multiplication, but in terms of price/performance this is an underestimated beast. I'm not sure whether the CPU cooler fits the case in terms of height (sorry I'm writing this in a hurry and can't look up now).

[Squeak]

Based to the one you showed, what do you think about this one?
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/26H9m
I didn't plan to buy the device either as if I really want to open something, there is the laptop for it.
250GB HDD is more than enough for me, combined with an SSD it is perfect.
About the case, I love the look of those NZXT Phantom cases.

[Rusch69]

The i7 4770K has no advantages apart from easy overclocking (only in addition with a Z87 chip motherboard!!) and the useless iGPU. If you don't need that, the Xeon is the better and cheaper option at same performance.

That CPU cooler you listed is okay, but weaker. If you want to overclock, you better get a powerful one since Haswell is getting quite hot.

I don't get why you would like to go with a mATX sized motherboard. If you want to overclock, you'll need a Z87 motherboard, but H87 is just fine for non-OC builds. That one has only 2 RAM slots also, so no further upgrades possible unless you want to replace both sticks.

The Kingston SSD is okay, but Samsung's still has better features and faster reading speed.

I'm not sure whether the RAM you added is CL9 or slower since it runs with 1,35V. If so, then you're better off with usual CL9 1600Mhz 1,5 V sticks.

The VelociRaptor HDDs offer good speed, but imo they're waaaaay too expensive. A proper Seagate Barracuda/Desktop or WD Black should do. If you badly want super fast storage and don't need much capacity, get a bigger or secondary SSD.

The EVGA GPU is more expensive, has a lower clock speed and worse cooling, which leads to more fan noise at strong usage.

Cases are always a matter of taste. The Phantom isn't bad but overpriced only for it's visuals. Savings potential right here if you really care about maximum system performance.

The PSU is good, but imo too expensive as well. Any other be quiet! or Seasonic one at 500 W will do, as long as all required connectors are available. This shouldn't be a component to spare on though.

[XTO --]

Gaming + Computing & no overclocking: H87 Board + e3 1230 v3 (~290 €)

What the flying fuck are you saying, Andre.


If you want gaming only go i5. If you want to do computing and general gaming i7. Do not go for a Xeon for gaming, for the love of god (unless you wanna have a dual-CPU setup, which is probably not the case).

Based to the one you showed, what do you think about this one?
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/26H9m
I didn't plan to buy the device either as if I really want to open something, there is the laptop for it.
250GB HDD is more than enough for me, combined with an SSD it is perfect.
About the case, I love the look of those NZXT Phantom cases.

The memory you picked has decent clocks but the latency is way high. Either swap them for G.Skill or a different module from Corsair.

SSD is fine, but if you have extra budget go for samsung 840.

Case is top-tier

Processor is top-tier

CPU-Cooler: Do not go for that one if you are paying 40Euros. Buy a 212 evo instead, will perform WAY better and the price tags are really similar.

If you are going for an SSD, why would you buy an velociraptor? I'd suggest sticking to a 7200rpm one and investing in a better SSD.

MoBo is ok, I'd suggest taking a look into asrock's, but gigabyte is fine, specially if you can save up for z87

If possible, go for the Zotac 770 AMP!. It's factory overclocked for the same price (maybe a little bit more expensive) than the stock 770 and it's worth the money. I have one myself and it performs godly.

The EVGA GPU is more expensive, has a lower clock speed and worse cooling, which leads to more fan noise at strong usage.

Cases are always a matter of taste. The Phantom isn't bad but overpriced only for it's visuals. Savings potential right here if you really care about maximum system performance.

The PSU is good, but imo too expensive as well. Any other be quiet! or Seasonic one at 500 W will do, as long as all required connectors are available. This shouldn't be a component to spare on though.

No, cases are not only visuals since being capable of having a decent cable-management and good air-flow can get you lower temps in basically everything. Phantom is a god-tier case in terms of cable-management and airflow. It also has the looks, and the extra space in between HDD docks, atx and PSU will give you lower temps.

Agreed on PSU

EVGA is just shitty as it is because of their current architecture.

Zotac = Beast Performance
Asus = Cooling/good performance
msi = Cooling/silent/decent performance, worse than the 2 above
evga = oh please no do not get an evga

The i7 4770K has no advantages apart from easy overclocking (only in addition with a Z87 chip motherboard!!) and the useless iGPU. If you don't need that, the Xeon is the better and cheaper option at same performance.

Indeed the e3 is far cheaper, but I hope you know that for gaming it performs at the same level, or even worse, than an old 2600. Could be better for computing, yes, but as for gaming it's going obsolete really soon.

If you wanna go further, the e3 series instruction set is limited to handle with big loads and high data traffic, having a limited set of instructions makes the instruction bank hardware smaller and providing more physical space for the multiplexers/ULA, register bank, memory bank and so on, which, by consequence, makes it run colder and being more proper for 24hr sections without having to rely on architecture design for better cooling, thus, making it cheaper

. It does not support every assembly instruction as the i3, i5, i7, which, in some cases, could lead to not having the optimal performance in a game/non-server application properly optimized for desktop CPUs.

Then again, the 4770k is more expensive and it runs hotter, but having a good CPU-cooler (specially if you decide to go for the 212 I mentioned), you will have 0 problems with that.

[Rusch69]

What the flying fuck are you saying, Andre.

Indeed the e3 is far cheaper, but I hope you know that for gaming it performs at the same level, or even worse, than an old 2600. Could be better for computing, yes, but as for gaming it's going obsolete really soon.

Nope, that's not true. In terms of rendering it is on a line with an i7 4770K, due to HyperThreading, same cache and almost the same clock speed. The same actually applies to gaming in this case. Titles like BF4 already benefit from HyperThreading and that's an advantage compared to usual i5 CPUs at same price.

Here's some benchmarks (sadly in GER, but the values matter):
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2013/intel-xeon-e3-1230-v3-im-test/5/#performancerating-spiele-1920-x-1080

Just hit the arrow down where it says "Performancerating Spiele (1.920 x 1.080)" and you can choose a few recent ones. The Xeon really is on a level with the i7 on this aspect man. It even outperforms the i5s below the line.

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If you wanna go further, the e3 series instruction set is limited to handle with big loads and high data traffic, having a limited set of instructions makes the instruction bank hardware smaller and providing more physical space for the multiplexers/ULA, register bank, memory bank and so on, which, by consequence, makes it run colder and being more proper for 24hr sections without having to rely on architecture design for better cooling, thus, making it cheaper

. It does not support every assembly instruction as the i3, i5, i7, which, in some cases, could lead to not having the optimal performance in a game/non-server application properly optimized for desktop CPUs.

In theory maybe yes, but it still has no noticeable drawbacks in terms of common performance tasks such as computing aaaaaaand gaming.
The only noticeable disadvantages are the missing iGPU and the missing function for easy overclocking.

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No, cases are not only visuals since being capable of having a decent cable-management and good air-flow can get you lower temps in basically everything. Phantom is a god-tier case in terms of cable-management and airflow. It also has the looks, and the extra space in between HDD docks, atx and PSU will give you lower temps.

I didn't say cases don't matter at all, but there's way cheaper and still decent ones. Imo that's a waste of cash if you can get all these features for less.

[XTO --]

Not only in theory as if you just type down 1320 vs 4770k you'll find several benchmakrs that proove that wrong. But then again, benchmarking is something that depends on the whole system.

As in these ones for example: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

http://browser.primatelabs.com/processor-benchmarks

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-E3-1230-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4770K


Then again, benchmarks are pretty dependable on the system. I can find countless benchmarks where it performs worse, or better.

Also, please, tell me how the hardware design only affects something in theory. I don't refrain studying CPU Organization in college and being told that the hardware architecture affects little to no tasks at all, even more when talking about instructions bank, which is quite different [also if you do not know that, most games are coded in C++, have their methods and some functions pre-compiled to assembly and optimized for desktop CPUs/If you want an example of games that are coded with limited instruction set, which could perform better on a server than a desktop CPU: BF4; in counter-part if you have a game that is designed for Desktop CPUs: Farcry 3]

No, cases are not only visuals since being capable of having a decent cable-management and good air-flow can get you lower temps in basically everything. Phantom is a god-tier case in terms of cable-management and airflow. It also has the looks, and the extra space in between HDD docks, atx and PSU will give you lower temps.

I didn't say cases don't matter at all, but there's way cheaper and still decent ones. Imo that's a waste of cash if you can get all these features for less.

Yeah, really, the phantom is not cheap enough already (119,99USD), and it does not provide one of the best cooling performances.


Either way, I'm probably not going to be on the forums for the weekend. If you wanna have a decent and soon enough crappy system to save up some $$$ get the 1230 as rusch said. It will indeed be cheaper and probably be ok for a while, specially if your PC is being mostly used for encoding, rendering and such. If you are going for gaming, I'd seriously tell you to avoid the 1230.

Servers were never supposed to be used for gaming, as much as they can perform decently for gaming (which is probably not this case either, since we are talking about an e3 and not e5 and I suppose you don't wanna go bankrupt for getting an e5)

[Rusch69]

I can find countless benchmarks where it performs worse, or better.

Doesn't this put them on a line in terms of performance?

Hardware design surely complies it's purpose and as you mentioned yourself, the way the software/game is coded is a big factor too. Therefore at times the left hand one will be ahead and at other times the right hand one. Games especially often are either coded for AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hardware. The main purpose of the Xeon being a server/light workstation CPU doesn't change the fact that it's doing good on all aspects for a really good price. It's just an underestimated underdog.

[XTO --]

Doesn't mean that they are going to last as much as the ones made for those matters simply because:

Games especially often are either coded for AMD/Intel/NVIDIA hardware.

Whereas they are not coded for a "brand", they are coded in a certain architecture and perform better in those. And to be really honest, I'm yet to see a game being coded for servers.

As I said over skype, I really encourage you, or whoever it is who's building this PC to go over Tomshardware and look under CPU Masters or CPU Experts posts. You'll find better info about e3 vs i5/i7 than a retarded discussion over architecture vs clocks