GTAStunting
General => Blog => Topic started by: m3rrix on January 23, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
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Two Takes It (http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=47064) is for me the best SA video of 2010. Not only are the stunts truly epic but the editing is quite unlike anything I have ever seen in a video – it’s, well, playful. Every time I return to it I notice something new: a new filter catches my eye, a camera angle reveals something about a stunt I’d not noticed and with every viewing the audio track starts to makes more and more sense.
Two Takes It (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNbfOuIvnO4#ws)
Not being around the forums for so long kind of makes Two Takes It something of a mystery. And let’s be honest, the introduction doesn’t help – it’s more enigmatic than anything else:
Who cares about a description, it's only a project like other. I'll only give some tips about this video. 31 gb of footage, 9 songs used, 16 different color correction, a guest editor... Why people like to do simple video with rock or metal song ? Maybe because everyone like that on GTAS. Don't be afraid of critics, try to be creative and work as hard as you can to put the watcher in a fantastic position. A movie is famous because this movie is special, not because everyone like this kind of movie. This is the same about GTA. The revolution is coming. JUST TRY NEW WAYS OF VIDEO-MAKING !
What I want to know is where did this video come from? What inspired it? Who is this WaRoW and what do I need to do to get in on his revolution?
And so I decided to get in contact with the man himself and ask about Two Takes It. What follows is an edited transcript of my chat with WaRoW about Two Takes It and his approach to editing.
m3rrix: I recently returned to the forums after a few years away and one of the first things I noticed was that the quality of editing, particularly in SA stunt vids, has really gone up. While I think that this is partly because of better hardware and software, it is also pretty clear that people are putting a lot more time and effort into their editing. These changes are thanks largely to guys like you and Daffy and BeaT as well as the work of the editing crew you founded, Beyond Tomorrow. In a way though, this all reminds me of kr3mlin’s ambitions to change peoples’ approach to editing three-or-so-years ago with neoRetro films. Have you been influenced by kr3mlin’s break with standard editing? I’m thinking particularly of Rakish and Now, Returning To View. What GTAS videos influenced Two Takes It?
WaRoW: Yes I really was influenced by kr3mlin in stunting & editing, Now, Returning To View was my favorite video for a really long time. We see that kr3mlin doesn't really care about the people, he is doing his thing. That's the best state of mind to give the best. And all that editing crew is great but there shouldn't be more than 3 editing crew to my mind. There are only Visual Prox and Beyond Tomorrow (Visual Prox isn't very active to me). Others are doing things without any ambitions, only to put a logo on the beginning of their videos.
I never used high quality setting, because it's only video games. We shouldn't put importance in Xtrem Quality or whatever, a good old 720p is great. Certainly that's pretty to watch a video in an amazing quality but, all that things are only games !
I don't think there are any videos that influenced Two Takes It – it was all creation. Or it was [unconscious] influences because I really worked on doing something new.
I’m really inspired by movies. I really love directors who give a real importance to the editing, like Quentin Tarantino, Danny Boyle or Robert Rodriguez. I mean, GTAS stunting videos aren't really inspired, they only edit because they have to do it, and when they want they only use basics effects. To my mind, GTAS editors don't put a real sense in their edit, the editing must have an atmosphere, a soul.
m3rrix: I guess what I mean when I talk about influences has more to do with ambition, or intention.
It is interesting that you mention Tarantino or Danny Boyle – the parallels are obvious now you mention them. I’m guessing you’ve also seen Guy Ritchie’s RocknRolla and Chan-wook Park’s Oldboy? I’m going to use a word to describe them that you don’t hear very often these days – they are all auteurs. Hollywood has perfected a mode of production that strips autonomy from the director. It has basically become this globe-spanning money making machine. And so you end up with films like Cameron’s Avatar or Burton’s Alice in Wonderland that are visually very pleasing but don’t really stay with you after you’ve left the cinema. It is really quite rare these days that directors are totally free from the input of their investors. This is bad for art.
WaRoW: When I do a video, I try to give a message with it, it's my main intention. And I mostly try to don't get you bored like others video ! And yes, I saw a lot of Guy Ritchie's movie but my favourite still is Snatch, the editing has a real important place. I think the editing should be more important nowadays, there are as you said some upgrade with softwares etc... But editors or directors don't take it as an Art, this is mainly a tool to produce the movie. It looks like they don't even know what is possible to do with a little bit of editing ! The commercial society is clearly bad for Art, that's not only in the cinema. Avatar and Alice In Wonderland are really enjoyable but, this isn't Art, this is entertainment in my opinion. And not for everyone, I get bored when I watched them ! Well, directors should better think about editing and scenario than money !
m3rrix: When you sit down to edit where do you start? Is it with an idea, with a song in mind or do you fire up SA and take a look at your reps?
WaRoW: When I sit down to edit... I generally don't do that, haha! I always listen to music so I think that's the start of my editing ideas. I get ideas with a song, or something I’ve imagine in my mind.
I’m a [composer] too so I always discover new songs and I know a lot about music rhythm etc... I can nicely cut songs. I'm not limited for the soundtrack of my videos, other editors always choose one or two songs, not me ! I'm trying to don't make my video monophonic and boring, the watcher is more implicated with that process I think.
For my cameras views, I do some photography too, so I can take the best angle possible and I try to make it artistic as more as possible. I love to do a lot of cameras angles, it gives a great rhythm to the video.
Most of the time, I’m doing totally another thing and I get the idea from nowhere, I don't know how to explain that. I never fire up GTA at first, it ruins my ideas !
m3rrix: Haha. Let’s talk about music for a bit then. I’ve been listening to Mr Oizo which you used a lot in ‘Two Takes It’. He has this amazing cut-up style that just seems to work so well with the chunky Ed Bangers electro sound. When did you come across him? I think he is really great – thanks so much for using him – but I don’t really think ‘stunt video!’ when I listen to his records. How did you decide to use his music?
WaRoW: I started to come across Mr. Oizo when I started to do electronic music. He is from Ed Banger right, I really think Ed Banger is one of the best record [labels] ever, really, they are so different and they look happy to make stuff together, that is how should be in cinema or music! I decided to use him in Two Takes It because I wanted to try something new, and I directly thought of him because he isn't a conventional artist, I mean, he does what he really want. Plus Mr. Oizo's style fit really well with editing effects. There are some cool sounds etc...
m3rrix: Yeah he is and they are. I don’t really listen to a lot of techno music, but my brother is a DJ so I hear a lot about Ed Banger records. How do you discover new music?
WaRoW: I generally discover new music by luck, I’m always on youtube and myspace. I first listen to for example: Mr. Oizo, then I look the comments or friends and I always find something pretty! There are a lot of artists on internet, that's a great improvement of the music art.
m3rrix: I agree. I think the internet has really helped music as an art form. It is such a cheap distribution platform and has really helped to lower the cost barrier of entry for aspiring musicians. There are parallels of course with online video. But in a time when everyone is producing, how do you get your work noticed? Do you want to make a career out of all this?
WaRoW: Yes that's really awesome because [it’s posssible to produce] recording studio quality without a recording studio ! I think it’s the music choice which is making it unique, and of course, the editing ! If a stunt video has really incredible stunts, but a bad edit, the video will be just “good”. The editing [makes] the difference between a “good” job and an “unbelievable” job.
I would love to become a director, I’m trying to. I think that would be great because i have got the editing eye, and the musician ear. That would be pretty great ! I'm already doing some movie test !
m3rrix: Do you associate a visual style with music? Or does that emerge through experimentation?
WaRoW: Both. A song always gives me a feeling, an atmosphere, so it gives me a visual style in mind. But when I try to do my “mind idea”, I sometimes fail but I sometimes [get] a better idea. So it depends. Generally, if I can't do my idea, I cancel it and cancel the project...
I must have a really strong motivation to release a video, I always hate my work, I always think that I could do better.
m3rrix: I think you have touched on something about the nature of art there. How do you keep up motivation to continue editing? How do you know when to let go?
WaRoW: I keep up motivation because the people love my work. And i always want to do something more awesome than what i did. That's like a sixth sense, haha, i just know when i have to let go or not ! I think artists always have something to show, a message or an unique thing, this is why they aren't happy of their work because they think they can always do better.
m3rrix: How did the collaboration with Daksad work?
WaRoW: The collaboration with Daksad was like always, wonderful. I love to work with him, he has a great stunt/stunter choice and I always show him what I do, betas etc... He gives his opinion and I work with it ! But I really wanted to include him in Two Takes It, so I decided to make a guest editor, i gave him a song and he tried something.
m3rrix: And I think he did a great job. What are you views on the state of SA stunting more generally.
WaRoW: My views on SA Stunting... I left stunting but anyway I can give my opinion. I think that stunters only see the massive things, they should try to find another way of stunting like kert did or kr3mlin… In my opinion stunting is evolving, or was evolving when I was a stunter. Burn is taking the whole thing to a new level, he combines massive with creativity, that's a great thing for everybody. [The sam goes for] editors, they should try new things, every editors should put their soul in the editing, not only effects.
m3rrix: Ok, thanks very much WaRoW, I enjoyed chatting with you and finding out a bit more about Two Takes It. Is there anything else you want to add?
WaRoW: I hope you'll all try something different and make GTA an Art !
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I always loved Warows editing style :wub:
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Warow's edit is art :wub:
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Meow :wub:
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There have been editors before WaRoW trying out "different songs & effects". I liked Two takes It but it did not stood out for me. Beyond Tomorrow was founded after Visual proX, and Visual proX were the first official gtastunting.net editing crew that got a pin because of their revolutionary editings. They were the first to edit like 70% of today's editors.
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Thanks for mentioning me for creativity WaRoW =) Btw I need to talk with you on msn.
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warow is a great editor, but not the first to ever do it
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Was a great read. :ajaja:
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Great read indeed. but why do you use [] all teh time?
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The square brackets are to indicate where I've made a change to the dialogue. So for example, for the word unconscious, WaRoW originally wrote in French, inconscient. I guess I didn't need the brackets...
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Some good points got mentioned which also reflect my view on video editing. I had fun reading that conversation.
Cba to quote/comment some statements atm.
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I had forgotten there were so many french touch in this video, great video only watched it once back then which was a mistake. Great music unlike shitty rock we hear in every vids :)
Flat beat would have fit well in this video also haha
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Good read , GJ both. :)
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Cool interview. Its really nice the way you are going about doing stuff like this, good job man!
There have been editors before WaRoW trying out "different songs & effects". I liked Two takes It but it did not stood out for me. Beyond Tomorrow was founded after Visual proX, and Visual proX were the first official gtastunting.net editing crew that got a pin because of their revolutionary editings. They were the first to edit like 70% of today's editors.
Infact .digitex were around long before VPX (2006 iirc), and before the whole trend of editing crews. And they had some of the most influential stunters and editors of those years.
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That was a great read :) Also I'd like to thank you for letting me contribute to the video, it turned out to be one of the greatest collabs ever :D
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WaRoW: Both. A song always gives me a feeling, an atmosphere, so it gives me a visual style in mind. But when I try to do my “mind idea”, I sometimes fail but I sometimes [get] a better idea. So it depends. Generally, if I can't do my idea, I cancel it and cancel the project...
THIS!
Most editors don't take into account the atmosphere of songs, and there are lots of editings with simple beats,vocals synchronization.
Many just add effects to add effects without considering the emotion that comes out of the song.
I'm not very good but in my editings, I mostly try to express how I feel while listening to a song.
It's hard to explain, it's a matter of sensation (fighting, running, feeling like in an action movie, happy, sad etc...) and this bring effect ideas to your head. But as Warow, I often give up my projects when I can't create the desired effect or the right atmosphere.
Usually when I listen to music i sync all my body to the song lol: arms, legs, head and eyes too ... with muscle contractions, fast movements or wide ones, vibrations .. etc. I also ladle to make "visual effects" like DOF effect, or blur. YES I'M WEIRD!
Most of the videos I watch are boring today: if there is nothing entaitenaing after 30sec - 1min, i stop watching and don't even take care about the stunts.
Most of the people say that stunts are more important than editing, well in my opinion it's the contrary.
It's amazing how an editing can beautify stunts.
[/mylife]
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As Drizzly said, he's a great editor but he's not the first one. Just like Ghost said, digitex, VPX aswell for FPS' editing groups tried to do something different from the usual. No offence, but some parts of it (which I shall quote) makes me think that there is a bit of arrogance (is it the right adjective?) in some of his thoughts.
I mean, GTAS stunting videos aren't really inspired, they only edit because they have to do it, and when they want they only use basics effects. To my mind, GTAS editors don't put a real sense in their edit, the editing must have an atmosphere, a soul.
I don't think you're the only editor right here that edits because you like it. We wouldnt edit anything if we didnt enjoy it, I mean, we all do this for free, atleast most of the times. If it's all about obligation, there wouldn't be as many editors as there is. Adding sensations to a video isn't as simple as adding an effect, I agree, but if this or that guy can't do it, doesnt give you the right to generalize and say that we all do this because we have to
There are only Visual Prox and Beyond Tomorrow (Visual Prox isn't very active to me). Others are doing things without any ambitions, only to put a logo on the beginning of their videos.
God, that's an awful statement. I mean, there are editors who doesn't do what they do with passion, but come on, generalizing and saying that a crew edit their stuff for no ambition is the same as saying that only Scorpions and Eric Clapton composes because they love music. I don't know you, but every crew has their "black sheep" among the members, but, they also got the ones that love and enjoy what they do. You are saying that if we pick editors who are no ambicious and throw them into one of these crews you mentioned they will start loving what they do? I honestly don't think so.
I don't know you, but Digital+ came from nothing; me, TheGT4sm and Franco (who were the only members by then) started editing without any knowlage, and I gotta say, compared to what we were by the time we started, we grew a lot. I always did my best with what I could learn about the limited software I had, Vegas and Premiere, and now you're saying that all the hard work I dedicated to Digital+, cloudwalker to EV, is nothing but an intro to our videos?
Avatar and Alice In Wonderland are really enjoyable but, this isn't Art, this is entertainment in my opinion. And not for everyone, I get bored when I watched them ! Well, directors should better think about editing and scenario than money !
So you're saying you don't care at all about the storyline and all the effort their teams put in those projects, just because there is some sort of bad editing?
I’m a [composer] too so I always discover new songs and I know a lot about music rhythm etc... I can nicely cut songs. I'm not limited for the soundtrack of my videos, other editors always choose one or two songs, not me ! I'm trying to don't make my video monophonic and boring, the watcher is more implicated with that process I think.
Who told you that using 1 song only makes a video boring? Imo you don't have to use 15 songs in a 3min video to make it more interesting.
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There are some interesting points, in other hand, that should be highlighted.
When I sit down to edit... I generally don't do that, haha! I always listen to music so I think that's the start of my editing ideas. I get ideas with a song, or something I’ve imagine in my mind.
I must say that I do this with most of the musics I listen to, just lay and imagine how it should be used in a stunt video. By doing this, and imagining several situations, you don't limit yourself to the basics, you can think about something where simplicity and hard-work can make something a lot more interesting than an effect that took you one week to make.
If a stunt video has really incredible stunts, but a bad edit, the video will be just “good”. The editing [makes] the difference between a “good” job and an “unbelievable” job.
I must agree there when you say that an video edit makes the difference. Editing is just like the final touch of a bunch of stunts, where picking the best angles, leaving every thing clear enough, and showing how difficult or technical something is, makes it much more interesting.
[The same goes for] editors, they should try new things, every editors should put their soul in the editing, not only effects.
Most of us are trying, probably some just didn't find out what they are actually good at. For example, my weak spot is defenitly camera angles, even if I took some time to read about it and practice, I still can't get it mastered. If I can't get it perfected, I can't improove with something different. In other hand, I'm creative, which makes it a lot easier for me, to think about something that other people didn't try at first.
I'd just like to add, that this was a good read from both sides, interesting questions from m3rrix, and (sometimes arrogant) clever answers from warow. I would have enjoyed if M3rrix had questioned about different things than Two Takes It and video editing overall, maybe you could have come up with something totally unexpect and a side from warow that we don't know yet. Good job on the interview M3rrix
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People know how I feel about SA.
Having said that - this video rocks, WaRoW rocks, the editing rocks, absolutely marvellous vid. It's weird cos I remembered WaRoW auditioning for TMS and even though we liked his stuff we were also kinda closed and couldn't just change our mind cos someone awesome came along lol - seeing this just shows me what TMS missed out on, but it's a great vid and a good addition to the blog.
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And all that editing crew is great but there shouldn't be more than 3 editing crew to my mind. There are only Visual Prox and Beyond Tomorrow (Visual Prox isn't very active to me). Others are doing things without any ambitions, only to put a logo on the beginning of their videos.
WTF, Escalated Violence doesn't have a real logo and we never add it before vicdeos to feel cool. EV is actualy THE editing crew for the people that care the most about "atmosphere".
Against your statement I could say: beyond tomorrow can only overedit. How would that feel?
So shut up and stop feeling like a king. And stop thinking that your way is the right way. Everyone here is right and wrong at the same time. There is no definition of what a stunting video should be, luckily, otherwise it would be boring as fuck.
Goodbye -.-
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CW gets my point :euro:
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That was a fun read :ajaja:
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And all that editing crew is great but there shouldn't be more than 3 editing crew to my mind. There are only Visual Prox and Beyond Tomorrow (Visual Prox isn't very active to me). Others are doing things without any ambitions, only to put a logo on the beginning of their videos.
WTF, Escalated Violence doesn't have a real logo and we never add it before vicdeos to feel cool. EV is actualy THE editing crew for the people that care the most about "atmosphere".
Against your statement I could say: beyond tomorrow can only overedit. How would that feel?
So shut up and stop feeling like a king. And stop thinking that your way is the right way. Everyone here is right and wrong at the same time. There is no definition of what a stunting video should be, luckily, otherwise it would be boring as fuck.
Goodbye -.-
Nothing against you Felix, but youre always talking about YOUR editing crew and always act like YOUR editing crew would be the best. Yes, you dont SAY it is the best crew....but im sure you think it.
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Lol people, why are you getting so hyped up? That's just warow's opinion on these subjects. It's your choice to value them or not, no one's forcing you.
@ merrix, I'm not saying you have no idea what you're talking about but... two takes it is by far not the best video of '10 stunting-wise.
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And all that editing crew is great but there shouldn't be more than 3 editing crew to my mind. There are only Visual Prox and Beyond Tomorrow (Visual Prox isn't very active to me). Others are doing things without any ambitions, only to put a logo on the beginning of their videos.
WTF, Escalated Violence doesn't have a real logo and we never add it before vicdeos to feel cool. EV is actualy THE editing crew for the people that care the most about "atmosphere".
Against your statement I could say: beyond tomorrow can only overedit. How would that feel?
So shut up and stop feeling like a king. And stop thinking that your way is the right way. Everyone here is right and wrong at the same time. There is no definition of what a stunting video should be, luckily, otherwise it would be boring as fuck.
Goodbye -.-
Nothing against you Felix, but youre always talking about YOUR editing crew and always act like YOUR editing crew would be the best. Yes, you dont SAY it is the best crew....but im sure you think it.
Says the guy with ESH <3 under his avatar! :lol:
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Nice interview, I agree on most points with Axel.
EV is actualy THE editing crew for the people that care the most about "atmosphere".
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And stop thinking that your way is the right way. Everyone here is right and wrong at the same time.
These two sentences contradict each other.
"Against your statement I could say: beyond tomorrow can only overedit. How would that feel?"
Wrong, because it is wrong.
Nothing against the other editing crews though. Variety is always good for me; (that's one of the points I disagree with Axel on, kinda) EV for example is a really good editing crew.
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I, like XTO, beg to differ the points which are kinda showing only his opinion about the subject being 'right' , if all of the editors would go on this 'revolution' it'd create again, no variety at all and a state when everybody's editing the same way, just doesn't seem right to criticize other editors that don't follow that opinion.
A good point is about editing part making the video great instead of just good.
Put aside his great editing in my opinion.
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if all of the editors would go on this 'revolution' it'd create again, no variety at all and a state when everybody's editing the same way, just doesn't seem right to criticize other editors that don't follow that opinion.
Exactly. If everybody tried to do something different/unique to everybody else, then everybody would be doing exactly the same.
(http://pix.gbatemp.net/183895/TrollFace.png)
Problem logic?
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Lol people, why are you getting so hyped up? That's just warow's opinion on these subjects. It's your choice to value them or not, no one's forcing you.
It's no longer his opinion, when he states something where he sounds so certain about it, as if it was truth.
I couldn't really find proper words to express what I wanted, but oh well, fuck it
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Lol people, why are you getting so hyped up? That's just warow's opinion on these subjects. It's your choice to value them or not, no one's forcing you.
@ merrix, I'm not saying you have no idea what you're talking about but... two takes it is by far not the best video of '10 stunting-wise.
That's, like, my opinion man.
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You can't arguee with that MMM. He's a TMS. :euro:
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Thanks merrix for sharing this with us! That was really awesome of you :wub:
Well, talking in general, I think WaRoW is such an inspiration to every editor that takes editing seriously :ajaja:
That was amazing to read, and some of the tips that WaRoW said here, he already said them to me while ago.
And now on I'm really gonna try to do what you say..
I'm kinda like you I consider "editing as a job", I consider editing like an art!
I always listen to songs first to get ideas to the video..
But then I just record 3 cam angles on each stunt and I start editing with every effect that comes to my mind. AND THAT'S NOT GOOD AT ALL!
I think everyone (who takes editing serious) should put the soul in the video and create some kind of art and atmosphere with it! :ajaja:
"Fallow the Master if you want to be the Master"
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Lol people, why are you getting so hyped up? That's just warow's opinion on these subjects. It's your choice to value them or not, no one's forcing you.
@ merrix, I'm not saying you have no idea what you're talking about but... two takes it is by far not the best video of '10 stunting-wise.
That's, like, my opinion man.
Exactly, but you don't really tend to point that out in text so it looks more like a "report" instead of a blog, and reporters are all about staying neutral / objective.
It's still an awesome idea to do a blog on editing and as your other topics I think it lightens the place up. Cheers.
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Two Takes It (http://www.gtastunting.net/index.php?topic=47064) is for me the best SA video of 2010.
Need any more be said?
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I never got the chance to reply in the Two Takes It -topic, but I must honestly say that the few gray slow-mo seconds with Ennio Morricone's Chi Mai, is probably the most brilliant and beautiful thing I've seen when it comes to stunting movies.
Interesting read, by the way.
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I just love it how WaRoW said: "F*ck convensional editing... I don't give a flying duck about one CC, let's try 16"
Love the video man, just love it.
Creativity is the most important thing.
Great great great great job mate... keep it going
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That was pretty cool. I don't really like watching SA videos so really the editing is quite important to me. Probably the biggest advantage this video had was the amount of music on it. Clearly the editing depended heavily on the music and there was much variety to give suspense and entertainment. I didn't read the chat but I'm sure this guy wanted to do something non-standard, which is usually good. And sometimes you can't make up your mind and you make a video with 12 songs in them lol.
But yeah the video had pretty much everything. I very much liked the little comments underneath at the start. Good use of effects and pretty much perfect synchronization with the music. Because yeah, you can change the song however many times you want, but if your editing doesn't change with it, you're not really doing much with the video. So good job pulling that off.
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Epic :wub:
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Interesting read. Thanks m3rrix for taking the time to interview and WaRow for obliging.
It is always a matter of taste. Some content can be elevated with great editing, sometimes the content says it all itself and doesn't need any editing. There are thousands of examples of this in movies.
Some editing is wild, loud, in your face, and ACTIVE.
Some editing is subtle, minimal, is calm.
Some can say, thats boring and bland,
and some can say, thats A.D.D. and is distracting.
Some like Coca Cola, some like Pepsi....etc
IE. Psycho shower - scene - over 90 cuts
The Graduate - the ending scene - it just sits there on the two with an unknown outcome.
Both cases, it creates an atmosphere that is concretized and harmonious OR dissonant with the content and hopefully immerses the viewer into intended ride.
I like both at different times for different reasons, as long as it ELEVATES the content.
To me, stunt vids are "STUNT" vids. I have always wanted to mess around and make more "EDITING" vids, but just was always outweighed by the ideals on the stunt side. I think a bit of both is ideal, so keep on trying things people :P
Really enjoyed the vid. Glad you had fun making it, and people enjoyed watching it. That's whats important.
Glad there were no "shakes" and loved the bit at the end with CJ.
I had a similar idea for the sketch show.
Edit and have fun everyone but FFS, try to put a little more thought into an intro then just inserting a name over the player........Just push yourself to be more creative or dive right into the stunting :lol:
and that is just like, my opinion man.
/abide